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Old 01-24-2013, 06:08 PM   #1
 
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Default Tired of it...the cone controversy.

Yes, I am tired of it. I feel - well, duped. I know that this phase will pass, but I no longer buy into the mantra about cones being bad. For the past many days I have been using a conditioner with dimethicone; and today, I used CK and 3 in 1 mousse, at my stylists' (got my roots done). My hair looks great. She used my products, and I only got the roots done. I cannot speak for anyone else but I am concluding that there is no universal evil in the use of cones.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:54 PM   #2
 
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I've been using cones for months. Yeah, I end up clarifying more often then I was when I was CG, but that's also kept my scalp happy...

My hair looks as good or better then it did on CG.
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:24 PM   #3
 
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I don't think they're bad, either. One of the reasons it was advised to stay away from 'cones was that if you're not doing anything but co-washing, you're going to eventually have buildup. And if you're doing hard-core CG, that means no shampoo at all, so 'cones would be a bad idea. Anyone who uses shampoo, even low-poo, can probably use 'cones with no problem. One of my favorite conditioners right now has 'cones in it, but I use shampoo so I don't worry about it. My hair is fine.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:24 PM   #4
 
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I don't think they're bad, either. One of the reasons it was advised to stay away from 'cones was that if you're not doing anything but co-washing, you're going to eventually have buildup. And if you're doing hard-core CG, that means no shampoo at all, so 'cones would be a bad idea. Anyone who uses shampoo, even low-poo, can probably use 'cones with no problem. One of my favorite conditioners right now has 'cones in it, but I use shampoo so I don't worry about it. My hair is fine.
THIS!! They are only a problem when you aren't washing!

If they work for you, go for it!
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Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:13 PM   #5
 
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'Cones are the only thing that can control my crazy coarse hair and make it feel like real human hair, so I don't buy into 'cones being evil -- especially when coca betaine is enough to remove them! You don't need super harsh sulfates. I love my silicones and how soft and manageable my hair is now.
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LOW-POO: Renpure Organics
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:18 AM   #6
 
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I don't think it's as much of a controversy as people simply recommending (with different degrees of forcefulness) what works for them.

My hair doesn't like silicones. It laughs at them all--- dimethicone, amodimethicone (took me a while to figure this one out), methicone, and the -xanes. (And I do wash with a low-poo on a semi-regular basis...)

It just has never worked. Ever.

I realize that a lot of people have success with cones, but I can, with a good amount of confidence, say that I'm never going to be one of those people.

The end mantra, of course, would just be: Do what works for you.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:06 AM   #7
 
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My world was just ROCKED.

Read through this thread!!!!

http://www.untamedtresses.com/long-h...build-up-3143/
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Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:29 AM   #8
 
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Yup, I'll still use my cones a long as I'm using cleanser with coco betaine, or even glucosides. I will use a shampoo that contains a gentle sulfate every once in a whole but not even because I have to, I just happen to like a shampoo that contains sodium myreth sulfate. Dimethicone and amodimethicone work really well for me. However, I will say that I still think cyclopentasiloxane is evil, my hair hates that stuff, lol
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:24 AM   #9
 
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I've found that my hair does does fine with cones in styling products, but not so much with cones in conditioners. However, after reading Myrna's recent thread about her new conditioner, I'm willing to try again.
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CO-WASH: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo
CLARIFY: CHS Treatment Shampoo (used prior to PT/DT)
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:30 PM   #10
 
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I don't find it very controversial, just different opinions. Like any other hair product, it will work for some and not for others.
My hair does not do well with cones. It gets dry and breaks off and just gets worse and worse the more I use them. But for others it works just fine.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:25 PM   #11
 
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I think the thing to keep in mind with silicones is that you dont over do it. I use them when I need them and not when I dont.

Winter time for me is easy to follow CG but summer is very challenging for me with frizz. I try to keep the silicones to stylers and maybe a conditioner. It leaves me having to wash daily or most days at least. I do think you will see the effects of silicones if you use them long term. Actually I dont think its the silicone as much as the shampooing to remove them.

I say use them when you need them and go back to CG when you dont.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:49 PM   #12
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Amodimethicone for me don't work , gave me build up.

I'm still looking and testing a sealant that suits my hair. And at least now, wouldn't want to test silicones.

See, I'm not saying that the silicones are bad. I know its good effects, such as: softness, shine, better manageability. But my big question is: can we compare cones to oils when we talk about treatment and not simply "makeup"?
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:53 PM   #13
 
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I wish the same would apply to sulfates-l like bubbly shampoo & so does my hair. Its not evil if your hair agrees w/it.
As for cones, absolutely cannot use it in any form-one way street to a head full of frizz, same for co-washing, oils, and proteins, but that doesn't mean they should be banned like some CG'ers would have you believe.
My mom on the other hand, can use every cone known to man on her baby fine cherub curls...gasp! brush them into wave and still has perfect healthy hair, go figure!
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:27 PM   #14
 
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Amodimethicone for me don't work , gave me build up.

I'm still looking and testing a sealant that suits my hair. And at least now, wouldn't want to test silicones.

See, I'm not saying that the silicones are bad. I know its good effects, such as: softness, shine, better manageability. But my big question is: can we compare cones to oils when we talk about treatment and not simply "makeup"?
Have you tried mineral oil for sealing?? It's my HG!

I know some silicones like a-cone actually target damaged areas. So for some that may be beneficial.

I have heard others says a-cone built up on them, but in reading today I've learned that that's not technically possible. I'm not saying that it didnt give you problems, but perhaps it wasn't build up?

I also learned that its possible in a lot of cases the build up is happening because of two different ingredients that don't like to play together, and not the cones. Especially if you aren't using a "matching" poo and condish. (A lot of that is in that link I posted above.)

I agree the key is likely "don't over-do".
I was thinking today that in my pre-CG days I was using a sulfate poo and coney condish, then different cones in my LI and curl-booster products. Plus I often used a shine spray! (COOOONES!!!)

So maybe ONE product with a cone or two is not going to be at all equatable to my (and many others) pre-CG routines! So I'm going to experiment a little and see how it goes....
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2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:38 PM   #15
 
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'cones in conditioners make my hair flat. However, when I'm really tangled, they do the trick.

I like to switch it up.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:27 PM   #16
 
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Well when I started reading about cones I was a bit undecided myself, there seems to be benefits as well as problems with using them but it really depends on the individual.
I use whatever conditioner I like I don't worry so much about the cones because I don't have issues with them building up on my hair. I use a sulfate free shampoo that lathers up adequately and removes them from my hair.
I don't really know if they create a barrier for moisture but I haven't seen any evidence of this with my hair.
I do try to use my shampoo on the days I want to do a deep treatment but I can go weeks using conditioners with cones and co-washing my hair without getting build up.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:49 PM   #17
 
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Before thing CG, I never had a problem with cones. I was washing everyday with a sulfate 'poo & straightening, so cones kept my hair smooth & frizz free.

After starting CG (modified at first), I found gentler surfactants, like coco betane, didn't remove all the water-soluble cones from my hair, even though they were supposed to. I never co-wash exclusively, so that wasn't a problem.

Of course, it all depends on the individual, hair properties, water quality, washing technique, etc...

I always sound like a zealot, but in my personal experience, polyquats & cationics build up on my hair way worse than cones ever did. Many of the cone-free products are loaded with them & it took me a long time to realize why my curls was limp, dull & stringy. Normal 'poos (anionic) only make them cling tighter to the hair shaft, compounding the problem.

Again, though, some curlies love 'quats, so your mileage may vary.

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No-Poo: Naturally Amari Berry No-Poo (w/o Aloe & Horsetail)

Condition: Suave Daily Clarifying & Sun-Ripened Strawberry

Stylers: 4Naturals Spring Back, L'oreal Everstyle Curl Defining Gel

Avoiding: sulfates, ‘cones, parabens, polyquats/cationics (except stearamidopropyl dimethylamine), most proteins/extracts.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:56 PM   #18
 
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Okay...I don't think it's some kind of conspiracy. If you co wash, you have to be cautious of what's in your conditioner because build up can happen. Imagine someone heard of co-washing in passing and tried to co-wash with a conditioner full of cones and then used RO and LI full of cones. They probably wouldn't have a very pleasant experience. Obviously since you are using shampoo, you don't have to be hyper sensitive to build up. You could even suggest that a little build up might be a buffer between surfactants and your hair.

It's all common sense. You don't follow anything word for word without taking in context and intent.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:33 PM   #19
 
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What are cationics?
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low poo: JCHCC, CJGCS
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:28 PM   #20
 
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I didn't know there was a mantra that silicones were bad. I thought it was just a matter of they work for some people and not for others. I cowash several times a week. Silicones will seem okay on the first wash but by the second wash it's a dry disaster because my hair is very prone to buildup. I avoid all cones in all forms and that makes my hair happy. I think everyone should do what makes their hair happy. There are other ingredients my hair hates too like PVP but I'm not dogging PVP.
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